On Shock and awe in intercultural parenting

9:32 am - 07/22/2012

bbs
One day, my Canadian friend came home after a 14 hour work day to find his Korean Mother-in-law playing with his infant son’s penis. He blew up at his Mother-in-law. Neither his wife nor his live in Korean family members understood why he was so upset. To my friend, any kind of penile touching except using a wipe or wash cloth to clean the area when necessary was tantamount to sexual abuse. Had his MIL been doing this the whole time? Did his wife harbour some sexual trauma in her past that she had not divulged to him after being raised in such a family? Was his son safe at home? He was suddenly terrified. On the other hand, to his Korean family it was just a bit of light gochu nudging by a doting grandmother excited about the existence of her first grandson. Nobody thinks of squeezing a cheek or oooing over a tiny fingertip or admiring the mop of hair. Why should the baby’s penis be the only body part off limits…especially when it signified his all important boyness? Needless to say, the outburst that followed observing this practise didn’t help to bridge the culture gap.



We’ve all heard again and again that the key to a successful marriage is communication. Before you ever get married you are supposed to talk about goals and finances and expectations and roles and boundaries and all that good stuff. And these days many people have lived together before marriage or have spent enough time playing some semblance of house that they’ve seen the potential issues ahead of time and fight/work them out before the ceremony is completed and marriage papers signed. But parenthood is a very different thing. There’s very little that can prepare you for the changes a baby brings to your life, and as little ones change so fast, there’s a constant stream of issues to deal with that were not previously necessary to think about even a few weeks before. So yes, you should probably talk about how to discipline your kids or vaguely outline your parenting philosophies pre-baby, but in all honesty, you won’t really know how interacting with this tiny being is going to go until you personally experience it’s individual personality, quirks, and the reality of parenting.

But then throw in parents raised in different cultures and you have an added bit of fun. Before seeing your MIL poking your son’s penis, how would you know that you even needed to have a conversation about the appropriateness of said action? How do you begin communicating about a difference of opinion if you don’t even know such a practise exists before you are confronted with it? And when you are surprised so suddenly by something you feel you should abhor or should just be common sense to everyone else because it is common sense to you, how do you react reasonably and rationally to avoid a massive family dispute?

Between forums and friends, I’ve been able to learn about some cultural differences and deal with them before we’ve encountered them. Different beliefs in the essential coldness of babies or postpartum practises for mothers have been on my radar for some time, and while I’ve had problems with strangers or people on the periphery of my life when it comes to these issues, Mr. Lee and I have negotiated these differences pretty easily because we knew about them and discussed them before they became an issue. I also remember one girl I used to work with telling me that the final nail in the coffin to her American mother’s desire to raise her children in Korea with her Korean husband, came when my co worker’s teacher cut off her hair in class. Since then I’ve also heard about in laws feeling no qualms about shaving or cutting their grandchildrens’ hair without getting permission from the parents first. Within a Korean context, the teacher of the 1980s or the in laws of the present day have a position of power and authority that is somewhat different from a Western concept. And boundaries about the body and who gets to make decisions about the child’s body are a little bit different here. I was amused today when a friend I’ve known for years asked if it was okay to take a picture of my child. I’m so used to strangers feeling Dragon is public property that I forgot that some people and even some legal systems have different ideas about babies. 

But back to the head shaving, knowing this practise existed, I was able to formulate an opinion about infant head shaving and approach the issue rationally with Mr. Lee before anyone shaved him without my permission. And I had years to think about baby penis touching before I ever saw it done myself and had already come to a few conclusions about under what circumstances it might be tolerable. Pre emptive discussions about cultural differences and knowing about these differences has been key to negotiating cultural differences, but the problem is…you don’t always know.

Early in my years here, I had noticed toddlers running around the 24 hr Home Plus past midnight or had experienced friends keeping their kids out way past my idea of a child’s bedtime when we were out at restaurant-bar type places. I had also worked at a place where 12 year olds were studying until 10 pm and seen job ads for (illegal but still publicly posting) hagwans which ran until 1 or 2 am. And that’s not to mention the adult students who would commute 4 hours a day, starting out at 4 am, working all day, taking an English class til 10pm, arriving home at midnight, and getting up at 4 the next morning to start the daily grind. I did know that there were different concepts of sleep in Korea.

But I thought it was common sense that you don’t wake a sleeping baby. Take that baby out to the fried chicken joint at 11 pm and have her fall asleep in your arms. Have your child running around the meat aisle at all hours of the night if he’s awake. Keep your middle school student up studying til all hours of the night to get the test results needed to get into a good high school. But why in the world would you wake an already sleeping infant? And in my experience pre-100 days, the baby was considered by Koreans around us as a fragile being. And doesn’t something so fragile need something as important as sleep?

So anyway, Dragon doesn’t always do well in his car seat. But on this one day he did! And he fell asleep! And he stayed asleep between the car and the elevator and the building! And then the door opened and it was all this yelling – ‘Dragon! Dragon! Dragon!’ along with poking, prodding, blanket stealing, cheek pinching. The works. I tried to shush. I tried to ask for quiet for just.a.few.more.minutes. The baby was SLEEPING. Yes I KNOW you want to see him, and I’m GLAD you want to see him, and you WILL get to hold him when he wakes up. And I know you are older and the baby is younger, and the baby should learn nice Confucian values early…but does that need to extend to a sleeping baby? Apparently it does. Over and over again. And according to the experiences of many other Westerners I’ve talked to, they have had equally aggravating experiences between their concept of sleep and babies and Korean family/friends’ concept of sleep. It seems like such a small thing, but when you have a child with as many sleep issues as Dragon, you really really really value the peace that comes with the baby falling asleep by himself and staying asleep for longer than 5 minutes.

Anyway, I regretably reacted badly because it never occurred to me that not everyone shared my cultural assumption in the sacredness of a sleeping baby. And I regret that I didn’t keep my temper because in the grand scheme of things, it really was a very small thing done without bad intentions. But I wasn’t expecting it. And so I flipped out not so much in anger but in shock.

There are areas now that we realise are cultural chasms. Baby eating is one where my ideas are often shocking to Koreans - breast milk, formula, how much, how often, until when, solids, which solids, when, what order, water, barley tea…these are areas where we have some differences of opinion and differences in cultural expectations. So we now try to start those conversations with a ‘in your culture….what do you do about this?’ and only then, after learning about the other’s opinion do we give our individual or cultural view. It helps to hear the other person out first before you go asserting your ideas. But of course…we already know that food is going to be a flash point and proceed accordingly. I’m sure there are many more surprises in intercultural parenting to come along in the next few years….





Written by msleetobe who nicely accepted it to be posted here if hopefully the mods are ok with this.

wtf @ Korean Mother In Law playing with a baby's penis.....
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theperfect4 22nd-Jul-2012 05:49 pm (UTC)
just here to say Leo is the cutest ever and i want my son to look like him.
pinky_fairy10 23rd-Jul-2012 03:40 pm (UTC)
it was actually Leo that led me to open this post. haha
chocolitas 22nd-Jul-2012 05:50 pm (UTC)
"Why should the baby’s penis be the only body part off limits…especially when it signified his all important boyness?"

odg
921227 22nd-Jul-2012 05:51 pm (UTC)
The only thing I really got from this was that she named her kid Dragon....
saearara 22nd-Jul-2012 06:07 pm (UTC)
i think the baby is named dragon in korean, maybe?
laeryn 22nd-Jul-2012 05:53 pm (UTC)
But why would you play with a baby's penis? I am kinda shocked, tbh.
eccentricvibe 22nd-Jul-2012 06:52 pm (UTC)
mte
yuki_yang 22nd-Jul-2012 05:58 pm (UTC)
I wish this article was better written.
Such...awful writing

Edited at 2012-07-22 05:59 pm (UTC)
eggyplant 22nd-Jul-2012 07:33 pm (UTC)
thank god I wasn't the only one who thought this as well.

It's too bad, cuz it's an interesting topic to discuss.
iruka92 22nd-Jul-2012 06:04 pm (UTC)
good lord.. /smh
luvey 22nd-Jul-2012 06:05 pm (UTC)
Cultural differences, even down to the smallest things are quite interesting....what is even more is our reaction to something out of our realm of experiences. We think first about "how things should be", due to our own personal experiences and forget that someone else/some other culture has a different take because of their own experience.
thebluemonk 22nd-Jul-2012 07:09 pm (UTC)
yeah i was thinking this while... trying to read this.

problem with "cultural negotiation" is that it often boils down into the ostracization of the "other" in favor of a more acceptable, favored norm held by the person or party in power, and then that other turns into a negative, backward culture ie 'traditional'
sinfulcherries 22nd-Jul-2012 06:08 pm (UTC)
Really, penis poking??? Being half Chinese and half Korean, I was pretty sure that wasn't okay in any culture.... Along with the screaming and waking up the baby in the car. The whole thing just made me think that the family had some issues.
charisma2 22nd-Jul-2012 06:31 pm (UTC)
That's what I got from the article as well.
kyuuhyun 22nd-Jul-2012 06:18 pm (UTC)
At the end of the article I still don't understand why she was touching that boys penis
kingalexarnold 22nd-Jul-2012 06:44 pm (UTC)
mte
jlie_ly 22nd-Jul-2012 06:33 pm (UTC)
the grandma playing with baby penis =___=' I've seen it many times too. It's nothing scandalous in Asia but i still feel weird. Thanks god they don't do that to baby girls.
slatslatslats 23rd-Jul-2012 10:32 am (UTC)
Why is it worse doing it to babies with vaginas than babies with penises?
umbrella_smile 22nd-Jul-2012 06:46 pm (UTC)
I almost had to stop after the first paragraph good god...
dayox 23rd-Jul-2012 12:58 am (UTC)
i know! im glad i continued though. it was an interesting read
asnindie 22nd-Jul-2012 06:55 pm (UTC)
Err okay that was just weird. Why was she playing with it, does she like boys so much? Jesus this isn't the third century anymore.
nemono5 22nd-Jul-2012 07:14 pm (UTC)
It's not like she was touching it sexually. It's just a baby, Koreans don't view it as anything sexual, especially for boys. I don't know if it's really a thing anymore, but little toddler boys running around naked was no biggie back in the day.

Go watch Dragon Ball, Goku runs around naked and they don't even try to hide his dingaling and no one cares. That's Japan, but this cultural aspect carries over to Korea.

imo, the dude is just overreacting and he has the typical western mindset where everything has a sexual connotation.
skrillex 22nd-Jul-2012 07:20 pm (UTC)
yeah but there's a difference between letting a kid run around naked and playing with its dick
skrillex 22nd-Jul-2012 07:16 pm (UTC)
my Canadian friend came home after a 14 hour work day to find his Korean Mother-in-law playing with his infant son’s penis.

i stopped reading I AM TERRIFIED AS TO WHAT COMES AFTER THIS OLJ
annhh 22nd-Jul-2012 08:06 pm (UTC)
lol me too
urbandrive 22nd-Jul-2012 07:17 pm (UTC)
The penis-touching may be shocking to a lot of us now but back in the day (in Korea) it wasn't, and even now it's not viewed in such a negative way. I know of many grandparents/parents who do that, although I don't know the actual reason why. It is a cultural thing though. It's strange to me because I was raised in America and even though I'm Korean and my parents are Korean, I'm used to the more "American" way of interacting with children, I guess you could say. But that doesn't mean that the American way is right or the Korean way is wrong. It's a big cultural difference that Westerners are not comfortable with. It's like going into a bathhouse in Korea and sharing a tub with ten other men or women and having someone help you scrub your body or something. Strange to us, but normal for them.

Edited at 2012-07-22 07:19 pm (UTC)
sobaek 22nd-Jul-2012 07:57 pm (UTC)
yeah. personally, in this situation, I'd approach it with a 'this may be a cultural barrier but you need to understand that this behaviour makes me extremely uncomfortable and I'm going to have to ask you to not do this specific thing because it is very, very upsetting for me'

because, even if it is totally cool for Koreans, I could never be okay with the grandparents touching the baby's penis ever. Even if it is just 'oooh its so little and cute' touching like you do with...idk, feet. I couldn't force myself to be okay with that for he sake of cultural difference and would try to calmly negotiate with the family to be the ones to bridge that cultural gap and give up baby penis touching.
hisjulliet 22nd-Jul-2012 07:39 pm (UTC)
If it's in the culture(which I highly doubt) why would anyone even want to play with a baby's penus? What type of feeling do they get out of it? I just find this whole article unsettling...
asnindie 22nd-Jul-2012 09:05 pm (UTC)
I'm not sure but Asians love that a son is born. So maybe she's so happy she's playing with the son's peepee which is just sick and creepy tbh, mostly because they're literally idolising a penis which is wrong.
unofficialdear 22nd-Jul-2012 08:05 pm (UTC)
I don't this this is an article, looks like a blog post to me. although a badly written one
im_an_aaangel 22nd-Jul-2012 09:49 pm (UTC)
It's just a personal blog post the OP took from here: http://msleetobe.wordpress.com
dori_liv 22nd-Jul-2012 08:15 pm (UTC)
That kid is really cute.
This is an interedting topic.
julietislimited 22nd-Jul-2012 08:43 pm (UTC)
I would probably go ape shit if I walked in on someone poking my child in his private zone. Absolutely ape shit. I mean I do understand different cultures but its just not something I could handle.
minyquai 22nd-Jul-2012 08:43 pm (UTC)
Wow okay interesting o_O
Especially the fact that sometimes we wouldn't even know how to approach certain cultural differences because we didn't even expect them to exist.
Like, why the fuck would you wake a sleeping baby? I'd just think it's the respective parents that are terribly selfish, not that it's a cultural thing.

Still wtf'ing@the penis play. Just. Why.
shining_lore 22nd-Jul-2012 09:13 pm (UTC)

sorry, I had to
liferule91 23rd-Jul-2012 12:04 am (UTC)
people do it to babies in my culture all the times, although i'll say this, you wouldn't catch a man doing this.

idk i don't find it as shocking as some of you guys do but that's because i don't know the context. If she just randomly took off the baby's diaper to play with it then yeah it's creepy, but if she was changing his nappy and started to play/tease the baby by using his penis(yeah i know it sounds weird) then she is in the clear.



Edited at 2012-07-23 12:05 am (UTC)
sugarlatte 23rd-Jul-2012 02:32 am (UTC)
This. I have family members who've done this to babies, but it's not like they decided to touch his genitals, stripped him and got started. It's usually when changing the baby, bathing the baby, etc.
jaerotic 23rd-Jul-2012 12:16 am (UTC)
lol and smh at this post at the same time. at the majority of the comments, actually.

Edited at 2012-07-23 12:16 am (UTC)
miki_831 23rd-Jul-2012 12:26 am (UTC)
Korean people just need to sleep more. Sleeping lets you re-cooperate, process information, and rest your body. Go to sleep and you'll stop freaking out so much.
seung_is_my_ho 23rd-Jul-2012 01:29 am (UTC)
lol seriously.
hileahrious 23rd-Jul-2012 12:29 am (UTC)
oh...
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